Jim Donovan Interview

Leave It in the Hands of the Music
Because the Music Knows Best
By Bob Makin
Jambands, October 2000

That growth that I mentioned is what made Rusted Root go from being an acoustic duo with Mike and Liz to a very eclectic, tribal-sounding band. Comment on how that growth not only is rooted in musical awareness but also political, environmental and spiritual awareness. When we started, we were all around 20, 21, around that age. Just out of college. Liz was just in college. I think she was 19 when we started. So we were all spring chickens. Not that we know so much now, but we knew a whole lot less then. One of the things we did from the get go was benefits. Anyone's and everyone's benefits. Our first three years, we must have done 50 or 60 different causes and attracted the kind of people who were into different political things. We did benefits for El Salvador, the rainforest, Clean Water Action, just zillions of benefits. Those folks that were coming to those different rallies and different things were our early base of fans based in colleges. Those folks typically have very good networking skills so they started spreading the word about what we were doing. So our circle would start to get bigger from Pittsburgh to the surrounding three states.

    That kind of awareness of things that are happening in the world correlates -- to me anyway -- with spiritual stuff and trying to get to know ourselves better. What are we doing? Why are we here? Questions that you constantly ask yourself in college especially at that age. What's my purpose here? How can I make better my own thing and better the world at the same time? Some of it was innocently naive, thinking what you're doing is saving the world. That's a highly naive thing to think. Out of that whole experience, coming to the awareness that the first thing that you need to do if you want to help the world is try to fix what's wrong about yourself. Everyone's got their own bunch of baggage. To get into that kind of stuff and figure out what it is that makes you tick, what makes you do what you do. That process in and of itself, in my opinion, is a lifetime process, continually figuring that out and hopefully progressing.

The beautiful thing about Rusted Root is that you have a forum to turn folks onto what you've found out. You go to your website and there's paths to everything from yoga and shamanism to Sierra Club and Milrapa Fund. Somebody who didn't have a clue, might look at that and say, 'Ah, these guys are a bunch of hippies.' But someone who is maybe not so aware of spiritual means but is interested could really get something out of it, more than just your music.

    That's what we try to do. But coming into the self-awareness thing, we try not to come off as preachy. Nobody wants to be preached at. But instead, working under the assumption that every human being is going at their own pace. Some are at the point where they're ready to be introduced to new things and so they've started to look for them. Some folks would look at us and say, 'Oh, look at these self-righteous hippies' and automatically put us in a box and whatever. Not having any judgement on either kind of person because everyone's where they are and that's perfect. Wherever you are is perfect and you're going to figure it out at your own pace. For those folks who are starting to look around, especially the younger folks but not limited to them, we start to put little things like that out there, whether it's a quote on the website or link to another website or whether it's in an interview like this, talking like we're talking, and just kind of using it as a forum to subconsciously introduce things. We put them out there for someone to go, 'You know, I heard about that. I thought that might be interesting and now he's saying this. You know, I really like his drumming so I'm going to go look at this. Because he's into it, maybe I'll be into it. Maybe it's not all a crock. Here's somebody I look up to that's into this.' And maybe just by virtue of my actions or anyone's actions, you teach somebody.

    I can sit here and blow all kinds of smoke up your ass and say all these really cool things, but at the end of the day, people will watch what you do over and over again, and that's how they learn. That's how little kids learn. They listen to their parents, they look at what you do and they do what you do. That's always the biggest reinforcement. So the bottom line is consistency whether we're doing it as a group or I'm doing it as a person.

What was the best thing about the Pittsburgh reunion show?

    The nicest moment for me was at the very end of the show, I had this impulse to go up to the front of the stage with everybody. I gathered everybody up at the front and said to them, 'Let's take a bow together. We've never done this before.' So we all put our arms around each other and took a bow. I almost broke down in tears. It was an emotionally touching thing, like, 'Here we are again. They're putting us back together for some reason. Let's give it another shot.' All these things were going through my head in a matter of a second. Looking at all the people's faces and just seeing the happiness. It was like, 'Wow, you're going to try again, and we support you.' All of our friends and families were there and longtime fans who had traveled that we recognized. It just felt very satisfying. If we never played again after that day, I'd still feel great about that because that moment was beautiful. Those are the kind of moments that in 10 years, you'll think back and go, 'Wow, that was a moment.'

What plans do you have as far as recording together, especially with this Mama Tongue record coming up?

    My work with that is finished. We're going to make a record for Island/Def Jam. Right now, we're in the process of throwing stuff on the table and seeing what we all have. It's turning out that there's a wealth of material. We're not going to have any shortage of that. That's the first step. We're taking it slowly and trying to make sure we do each step well and not neglect anything. We're also talking a lot, sitting around and talking, reacquainting, being friends again. That's at the heart of where the good juju is in music. The music is a direct reflection of your relationships with everybody. If you are able to get on a much deeper level in a conversation, it reflects back in the music. We're trying to make that base, that core of what we are strong and healthy like it should be.

    As far as future promotional efforts, when we do a record, every record is full tilt. We're going to go out and tour and do all the stuff. We're going to try it out and see how it goes. And if it goes great, then wonderful, and if it doesn't, then no harm done.

Was there ever a time when you weren't getting along?

    Well, think about it this way. A band is very much like a family with all the great stuff about having a family and all the really nit-picky, aggravating things about having a family. So just imagine being with your family on a bus for months at a time. Think about that? Think about what that would do? And that's exactly what happens with us and I'm sure with a lot of bands. Whenever you're with people all the time, you get to know them. You get to know all their shit and experience it first hand and right back at the em with their own. It can be hard, but at the same time, the other side exists. It's a family and you have all the hard stuff, but all the great stuff is there too. And that's part of being human, having relationships. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a relationship and you wouldn't get that incredible energy.

When will you enter the studio?

    Early next year.

From now till then, will there be additional Rusted Root tours?

    I imagine -- and there's no plans to do it -- but I wouldn't be surprised if there was another week. Traditionally, we've done the week before New Year's, and I wouldn't be surprised if we did that this year. What are your favorite new Rusted Root songs? Something that you know is going to CD the light of day.

    I don't know. I couldn't say at this point because we've played so many but we've only played them once. There's some songs that Jenn has worked on and there's some jams that we've all come up with together -- which is also a new thing -- that are really exciting and sound like us but are very much showing off everyone's new-found skills. It's just beautiful.

Last time I interviewed the band, there wasn't the technology to ask this question, but will there be any MP3s folks can check out before the record drops?

    If I anything to do with it there will be. I love that stuff. I'm a computer geek. I think it would be foolish to not do something like that.

How do you feel about the whole Napster thing?

    At risk of pissing the record company off, I think that the whole industry needs a big shakeup, something to get them honest again, get the industry refocused on music and not the hyper-millions of dollars. I don't know if Napster's doing that or not. The press says so. I don't know if in a year what will shake out to be, but I think anything that puts the consumer first and the music first is a good thing. I do think that there's going to be people that Napster's going to hurt, particularly songwriters who don't make a living off touring income. That's the downside of it. I definitely see that. I don't really have a solution to it, but I think the essence of it is the industry itself has become very greedy. It's always been money-motivated but now more so than ever. If I was king of world (laughs), I would love to see an industry that helps foster more kinds of music and more openness to different things instead of spoon-fed pop, instead of the industry dictating what you're going to like. I think that's the reason Napster's so popular. Not only is it free, but it's such a huge, diverse cross section of stuff that you would never hear because the radio stations aren't going to play because they're controlled by the record companies. They're paid by them. That's the sad truth of it.

The Rust Tribe is 66,000 strong. They chatted about the band the whole time you were on hiatus and now are really excited that you're back together. Comment on how that following is very positive and more supportive and reliable than such aspects of the music industry as radio and label support.

    One of the benefits of the spiritual and political consciousness in our music and the ways we try to carry ourselves is that you end up attracting people that are either like that or working towards that. In the big picture, we're all working towards that. None of us are perfect, especially us (laughs). When I've read the Rust Tribe I've noticed that they are sensitive and conscious about communications and being clear with each other. If someone's out of line, instead of slamming them, they talk it out in a more civil, human way than just violently shooting words at each other. It's a little society that seems to work really well.  A lot of the folks that have been there for a while I've seen take the time to educate the ones that are new about different etiquette and things that are cool and things aren't so cool to do, like offering to purchase bootlegs. Things like that.

    Over the years, we've spent a lot of time on the road. When you put yourself and your work in front of people and give them an experience, they become attached to it. That's how they come to relate to the music they hear on a CD to an experience. The reason anytime we go out we've always got a place to play and we've always got a lot of people showing up is that we've always worked to give people an experience, something they can actually feel and take with them. Humans by nature I think, when they get something good, first they take it for themselves, but then once they realize there's so much of it, they want to spread it around. That's the advantage that we have with this community. They want to turn other people onto it.

    There's always those folks who want to keep you small. You know, 'Oh, you're selling out. You're big time. You don't play the clubs anymore.' But I think those people are a minority and are on a different wavelength.

The first time you were on the HORDE Tour was the third HORDE with The Allman Brothers Band in 1994. Comment on how since then, the jam scene has exploded, what you think the main reason is for that explosion and how you feel about that explosion.

    It's so funny that folks think of us as a jam band because we're so not solo-oriented. It's not improvisation except for the drumming, which is why I think we get classified in that because we do long, extended improvisational things (with the drums). But as far as a band like The Allman Brothers, who have three guys that can solo their asses off, we don't have that. It's never been what we've done. But it's an energy. I think the reason that we get put in there, like Dave Matthews or Phish or the Dead, is we give people an experience. Jerry Garcia said something like, ' We create this sonic backdrop for the community that's out there.' And that's powerful. 

    So much of music today or yesterday is based on numbers and getting people buying all the records and not really fostering any sense of community. This is just my editorial, but in today's world, people are starved for that kind of togetherness. We're creating a place where people can come together and dance and have a good time, meet each other and make friends and all that stuff. That's like a service within a band. We're providing this thing for people to experience. That's at the heart of the jam band phenomenon's success. All these guys are creating a similar kind of energy. Sonically it's different. We sound different than Widespread Panic and all these people and they all sound different from each other, but there's a similar cross-section of folks that come to see all of us. And there's a lot of them.  The bottom line is that people are looking for something real, something that's not prefabricated, something that's changeable, something that's sometimes on the edge and maybe makes a mistake once in a while. It becomes more real to them. Sometimes when you make a mistake on stage, that's the fans' favorite moment because it was special and it's real.

And it's rare.

    Well, I won't comment on that (laughs).  

My last question for you, you pretty much answered as far as the moment. But should Rusted Root not stay together, what is it about having been involved with the band that has satisfied you most?

    I don't know about the most. There are just so many things that are satisfying. The first thing is the relationships with the people, the different members and the friendships and getting into each other's lives and having an effect on each other. I value that the most. And then right beside that is the music that's happened. There's a kind of music that's never been heard before on this planet and we made it. I'm really proud of that. I've seen it affect people. We've gotten letters telling us that we've saved lives or whatever crazy things that get written that people write to us about. But just knowing that you're having some kind of positive effect on a person's life and remembering how I, personally, was affected by music when I was a kid. I know that music saved my life. I know what that feels like and I can relate to that, and I'm glad to be of service and at the same time, just getting to meet people. I really like people. It's one of the reasons why I teach. I like to get with people and look at their faces and play drums with them and create an experience. It's the same thing.

    And obviously there's all the opportunities I've been afforded and all the side projects. I'm happy to have made a living. We're not millionaires, but I've made a nice, comfortable living. I've got a beautiful family. I'm glad to not be flipping burgers. I'm not really sure what else I would do in life if I wasn't doing some kind of music.